Curse

some guy · Jul 27, 2009, 01:16 PM // 13:16

Ok here is my problem...

Lately in arenas, I think all of you monks have encountered the assassin combo which can essentially wtfpwn your face.

Golden Fox->Wild Strike

It will destroy all counters a monk have on his bar.
Guardian: Useless
Stances: Usefulness to a minimum due to fast recharge
Return: Cripple duration is not really that great, since most sins carry dash or a some type of snare with them.
Shield Bash: Bash them and the rest of the combo still hits... the +15 seconds to recharge is not that big of a deal. I play melee sometimes in RA/TA. Cancel attack, and the duration of bash is only 5 seconds.

So what can an arena monk do to minimize the damage WITHOUT other help. The damage and kd from HotO/Trampling is just too much, and if they have a Mind Blast or a hammer war that quarter knocks you you are done.

Think of it as RA where the average warrior does not know what line backing is, the average caster does not know what watching the field is and tabtab cast tabtab cast, so no outside help is available.

A bit of a sidenote: I wouldn't say my monking skills are bad, I would say I'm a decent competent monk.

jackers1234 · Jul 27, 2009, 01:24 PM // 13:24

anti-kd stances, such as balanced stance can be used. skills like dark escape can also help.

shield bash is very effective against sin chains.

Revelations · Jul 27, 2009, 01:26 PM // 13:26

The only time those skills are remotely nasty is when they're followed by Shattering Assault. Otherwise you just ignore the low threat that such a sin bar provides and prot against any other damage. Guardian is still stupidly useful against the hammer you mentioned, and a (specced) fire shield, +AL spear and disciples will let you lol at mb's ~25 damage.

EDIT:

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackers1234

anti-kd stances, such as balanced stance can be used. skills like dark escape can also help.

shield bash is very effective against sin chains.

I think you missed the part where wild strike (on a 4 second recharge) utterly destroys the stances you mentioned. Shield Bash/Return are insanely useful though.

some guy · Jul 27, 2009, 01:26 PM // 13:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackers1234

anti-kd stances, such as balanced stance can be used. skills like dark escape can also help.

shield bash is very effective against sin chains.

The thing is those don't work.

Wild strike destroys your stances, if you time it after the chain, the 4 second of the unblockable chain recharge kicks in. The thing is I swap shields and guardians (if i can get it off) when other melees jump in. I still get wtfpwnd especialyl a lucky meteor/dchop/kd kicks in.

jackers1234 · Jul 27, 2009, 01:38 PM // 13:38

my bad =P i suck reading today, lol. its about timing, if you can shield bash his wild strike, he is out for 15 secs.

also, look for when he runs at you, it can give you a couple of seconds to prepare.

Fabez · Jul 27, 2009, 02:10 PM // 14:10

Be a strong and brave Monk, take Natural Stride and Distracting Shot.

The best piece of advice I can give you is to attempt to activate Balanced Stance after Wild Strike hits, or as others said: time Shield Bash correctly to take his Wild Strike out for 15 seconds.

Smoke Powder Defense might work too (depending on how common Assassin's Remedy is), though it's only going to be able to prevent a single chain before needing to be recharged.

Ex Death · Jul 27, 2009, 03:29 PM // 15:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by some guy

A bit of a sidenote: I wouldn't say my monking skills are bad, I would say I'm a decent competent monk.

Your problem stems right here from this assumption.

I Jonas I · Jul 27, 2009, 04:49 PM // 16:49

piercing shield + just running away negates like all of their damage.

Mad Lord of Milk · Jul 27, 2009, 05:31 PM // 17:31

gogogo Return + kite

Krill · Jul 27, 2009, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Shield bash + balanced stance is my preferred defense for RA. Shadow arts can be really good but I don't like the duration of dark escape vs. balanced stance. Balanced stance also negates big critical hits from hammers and scythes. Against an SA sin that's mashing you, shield bash would of course be the preferred skill and it's quite easy to predict when they will hit you with a queued attack skill.

The easiest damage mitigation for mind blasters is a fire shield + disciples insignias. Running a +15 q7 tactics shield for balanced stance + fire inscription + disciples = +40 armor total vs. rodgorts and immolate, or all fire damage if you're already suffering from another condition. That's roughly half damage. I also run SoA in RA instead of guardian with 10 in prot to basically reduce all button mashing damage to nothing. Since you will be encountering mind blasters and warriors that like to train all day regularly, I think it's worth it.

I really hate the tanking concept but it's completely futile to try to kite damage, taking critical hits and spamming a dinky 5s guardian sometimes.

Revelations · Jul 27, 2009, 06:13 PM // 18:13

SoA is pretty godly in RA. Don't know that I'd drop guardian for it, but it usually finds a way on to my bar.

Not that it helps against SA, but if its only the lead/offhand of that chain you're having trouble with then that's a nonissue. Its is incredibly nice at soaking up train damage if you can manage to squeeze it on to your bar.

Bobby2 · Jul 27, 2009, 06:51 PM // 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonas The Keen

piercing shield + just running away negates like all of their damage.

This.

/12chars

Ariena Najea · Jul 27, 2009, 07:35 PM // 19:35

If you're running the Mo/W meta bar and are having difficulties, you're doing it wrong. While the template may work well for others, it may not work for you so you should find something else instead of gimping yourself with a build that you personally do not run well.

I typically run Mo/R Melandru's (with Disciple's Armor) with Dshot for RA. I simply play it better for that format than I do Mo/W. Find something that works for you, instead of beating yourself up for not playing up to the meta.

Some general tips:

If you're running Healing, you can use Patient Spirit before a sin starts their attack chain, or if you see a MB ele casting Meteor. Depending on the situation, you may even want to use your enchanting set to delay the heal.
If you're running Protection, the best thing you can do is get the entire other team on you. This goes double if you're running Shield of Absorption. Make the other team mad by taunting them, and get your team to make themselves poor targets.
Bring a shield set. Or if you can only afford a couple shields, get versus Fire, Piercing, and Slashing. Also, bring a defensive mod on your martial weapon for the set, instead of +30HP as many players suggest.
Bring some sort of disruption - Be it Dshot, Shield Bash, etc. These skills destroy physical attackers, and a well timed Dshot can take out Mind Blast on an inexperienced Ele.
Keep track of recharges - Warriors tend to use Bull's Strike more than needed, and will use it the first chance they get off recharge. If you can guess when they'll use a key skill next, you can save yourself more easily.
Watch for play-styles - If you look hard enough, many inexperienced players utilize their skills in a very predictable manner. If you're packing Dshot, look for enemy Monks using Word of Healing on recharge and nail it. The sooner the Monk goes down, the sooner the foes draining your energy go down.
Play unpredictably - It may go without saying, but experienced players on the opposing team will be following my previous two suggestions.
Ask your team to ping their builds at the beginning of the match. Try to coordinate your team defensively so that spells like Diversion don't just go on enemy Monks. Diversion kills Sin effectiveness, and when timed well can also take out other key skills such as Bull's Strike, Debilitating Shot, and Distracting Shot.
If you're not kiting, you're doing it wrong.

some guy · Jul 27, 2009, 07:58 PM // 19:58

Ok I have all +10 shields and all the -20% to X shields. I kite and pre cast patient. I still get wtfpwnd sometimes.....

Run full desciples

Xyon the Greatest · Jul 27, 2009, 08:15 PM // 20:15

Kiting is my favorite elite skill.
Take No Damage for as long as your moving.

And really, return or shield bash and a brain, and you destroy that chain.

Osiris_sam · Jul 27, 2009, 09:21 PM // 21:21

even tho there are viable tactics that can be used against this... quick recharging energy based unblockable lead attacks with a stance removing offhand attack available shouldnt exist imo. this skill is (ab)usable on gimmick bars such as lyssa daggers and escape daggers in which the 'highly skillful user, rolls his face from 1-4 on his keyboard, hits escape/avatar of lyssa and repeats'.
there is also insane synergy with critical defenses, making it extremely difficult for warriors to lineback (shock on recharge is nice, but then your not doing anything useful, although given the rest of the bad melee hate meta in RA, your probably hexed to the eyeballs with faint, insidious, VoR, empathy, blind and a cripple for good measure).
should have been tweaked a long while ago, but this proves nothing other than that anet care not about anything...

some guy · Jul 27, 2009, 10:56 PM // 22:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by osiris_sam

even tho there are viable tactics that can be used against this... Quick recharging energy based unblockable lead attacks with a stance removing offhand attack available shouldnt exist imo. This skill is (ab)usable on gimmick bars such as lyssa daggers and escape daggers in which the 'highly skillful user, rolls his face from 1-4 on his keyboard, hits escape/avatar of lyssa and repeats'.
There is also insane synergy with critical defenses, making it extremely difficult for warriors to lineback (shock on recharge is nice, but then your not doing anything useful, although given the rest of the bad melee hate meta in ra, your probably hexed to the eyeballs with faint, insidious, vor, empathy, blind and a cripple for good measure).
Should have been tweaked a long while ago, but this proves nothing other than that anet care not about anything...

qft!

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Seraphim of Chaos · Jul 28, 2009, 03:46 AM // 03:46

welcome to factions

kedde · Jul 28, 2009, 09:14 AM // 09:14

Hope the rest of your team if not having curses or some visions crapoutbot isn't completely terrible and kills the opposing team before you collapse.

Moonstalker · Jul 28, 2009, 10:11 AM // 10:11

There is always a counter to a build
That chain, is a counter to monks. The best you can do is use general tactics to avoid it, but unless someone on your team can get them to stop (VoR, Empathy, Insidious Parasite, Blind, etc) then stick to kiting.